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Mr_Crac
Hard as Steel
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 540
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Shao Mi wrote: |
Well, you could've already hit the guy ten times with your stickersword, then run away. Obviously that wears out the stickers...
Stickers also wear out even if you don't hit anything with the sword. It is what it is  . The other option would be to have them wear down every time you swing the weapon...  |
Maybe. Not everything in conjunction with the free running away mechanics seems to be consistent. |
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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The El Vibrato portal makes perfect sense.. you used a charge going through the portal and returning. The amount of time spent on the other side is irrelevent.
As for underwater, I don't care very much But you could say that without the appropriate gear, every time you have to dive down from the surface and swim back up (using one turn), and then you spend a turn in combat as normal. If you popper away the underwater combat, you still spent a turn getting down there in the first place.. |
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Mr_Crac
Hard as Steel
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 540
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Shao Mi wrote: |
| The El Vibrato portal makes perfect sense.. you used a charge going through the portal and returning. The amount of time spent on the other side is irrelevent. |
So you enter a store with the intention of buying something. Once you are inside, you decide that you are in fact not going to buy anything, but want to leave. You use your awesome walk-out-of-store-for-free skills. Should the owner of the place still take some money away from you, since you had entered their store, the amount of time spent inside being irrelevant?  |
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Kirkpatrick
Pool Cheater
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 591
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| If you took the bus to get there, the bus driver is definitely going to want some fare, yes |
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Mr_Crac wrote: |
| Shao Mi wrote: |
| The El Vibrato portal makes perfect sense.. you used a charge going through the portal and returning. The amount of time spent on the other side is irrelevent. |
So you enter a store with the intention of buying something. Once you are inside, you decide that you are in fact not going to buy anything, but want to leave. You use your awesome walk-out-of-store-for-free skills. Should the owner of the place still take some money away from you, since you had entered their store, the amount of time spent inside being irrelevant? |
You do understand that's totally not what's going on, right? The bus analogy is better. Or "you walk out of a movie theater right when the movie starts, but you still had to pay for your ticket even if you didn't spend any time watching." |
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TeKRunneR
HCD:
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1040
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Real-life analogies / narrative justifications have no point.
What you describe can simply be explained by the fact that some counters are decremented at the start of an adventure, before you do anything (stickers, el vibrato portal charges, delay()), while other things aren't.
If I had to guess, I'd say that most if not all counters in the latter category are directly based on your adventure count, while the others are independent counters.
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Wait.. are you implying that this is a game?
(though seriously, if the narrative doesn't make any sense, the game is less compelling... In this case I think it makes perfect sense though) |
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Mr_Crac
Hard as Steel
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 540
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Shao Mi wrote: |
You do understand that's totally not what's going on, right? The bus analogy is better. Or "you walk out of a movie theater right when the movie starts, but you still had to pay for your ticket even if you didn't spend any time watching." |
But running away without losing an adventure *is* associated with a cost. You have to use up tattered scraps, or a divine popper, or the 1-per-day cast from the V mask, or the 1-per-ascension Harold's Bell, or 50 MP for Ode and one of the n-per-day uses from your Bandersnatch. It's not like you get a free runaway for free. |
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_Crac wrote: |
| But running away without losing an adventure *is* associated with a cost. You have to use up tattered scraps, or a divine popper, or the 1-per-day cast from the V mask, or the 1-per-ascension Harold's Bell, or 50 MP for Ode and one of the n-per-day uses from your Bandersnatch. It's not like you get a free runaway for free. |
So the tattered scrap should also recharge the portal as you pass back through it on the way out? |
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curiosity
HCO
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 192
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| If we're arguing narrative justification, why does it take a turn to swim down through the sea but not to go from, say, the island to the market? If I can teleport some places, why can't I teleport others? |
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illarion
Hard as Steel
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 662
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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The sea doesn't cost extra adventures to swim down there. (If it did, it would be a fixed cost at the beginning and end of adventuring, not per adventure).
It costs an extra adventure because you move so slowly underwater |
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TeKRunneR
HCD:
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1040
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| curiosity wrote: |
| If we're arguing narrative justification, why does it take a turn to swim down through the sea but not to go from, say, the island to the market? If I can teleport some places, why can't I teleport others? |
Because water is obviously too dense to teleport into. Everyone knows that curio. You've never teleported or what?
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Last edited by TeKRunneR on Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NotJim
a cat is not a pony
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously, teleporting is all the rage these days 
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| curiosity wrote: |
| If we're arguing narrative justification, why does it take a turn to swim down through the sea but not to go from, say, the island to the market? If I can teleport some places, why can't I teleport others? |
Anti-magic field.
Intermittent anti-magic field. |
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trotskie
HCO
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Teleportation Runaways doesn't don't appear to affect the spacing between Strung Up Quartet appearances. |
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TeKRunneR
HCD:
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1040
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| trotskie wrote: |
| Teleportation Runaways doesn't don't appear to affect the spacing between Strung Up Quartet appearances. |
Makes sense, that one is based on adventure count (like the pencilnecked demon).
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Cristiona
DIAMOND HARD
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 1655
Location: Hallucinating through Goofball withdrawl.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Heh.
Not getting sucked into this again. But Mr Crac's right. |
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pacone
Soft Like a Bunny
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Could you please go back to giving reasons why the bandersnatch is so awesome?
I think getting the fam equipment after reaching level 4 is well worth it, even if you get lead necklace...although I would probably prefer using minion/hobo/ggg that run if got the necklace. |
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kevbob
bobkev
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 2771
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| pacone wrote: |
Could you please go back to giving reasons why the bandersnatch is so awesome?
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the snatch helps re-add some of the micromanagey metagaming you miss so much from ns11!
with the eventual death of delay(), the snatch will be side-nerfed giving the most vocal and extremist powergamers something ridiculous to clamor over!
you can say "snatch" over, and over, and over again in forums and chats!
(the last one wasn't sarcsam, 'natch). |
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Cristiona
DIAMOND HARD
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 1655
Location: Hallucinating through Goofball withdrawl.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| kevbob wrote: |
| you can say "snatch" over, and over, and over again in forums and chats! |
My snatch is cuter than yours. |
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Waiting4Oct
Wake him when September ends.
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1644
Location: The Northwest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:39 am Post subject: |
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really now?
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I don't want the news. (I have no use for it.) I don't want the news. (I want no part of it.) Sitting outside of town everybody's always down. (Tell me why.) Because they can't get up... From the Waiting Room! |
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pacone
Soft Like a Bunny
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You win a prize: lead necklace. |
Dangit!  |
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Stapper
Hard as Steel
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 860
Location: Antwerp
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Cristiona wrote: |
| My snatch is cuter than yours. |
The face is better than the snatch!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSABmfp9XrI
Yes, it is Fast on guitar.
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swann_88
DIAMOND HARD
Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 1451
Location: hall of fame
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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the best use I have found so far for the runaways is the gremlins 5 turns with 14 flyers = fantastic quest progress
next time I'll think about it before the first adv and take 4 turns
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Master of the Universe
Hard Candy Shell
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| So how important are the combat effects for HC speed? Or is it just the free runaways that are important in HC? |
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Master of the Universe wrote: |
| So how important are the combat effects for HC speed? Or is it just the free runaways that are important in HC? |
None of the combat effects are speedy, except perhaps the ones that regenerate MP, since that will reduce your costs noticeably for those spells. And of course the ones that are +exp. |
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Master of the Universe
Hard Candy Shell
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| So is it only used for a few free runaways each day? Because I'm not completely optimal but it seems like my hatrack makes a much better volley in general. Other than using the stunning in speed hardcore and tuning stats in aftercore it doesn't seem that great for regular adventuring. Especially as a moxie class, which is what a speed run would be for me. |
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Master of the Universe wrote: |
| So is it only used for a few free runaways each day? Because I'm not completely optimal but it seems like my hatrack makes a much better volley in general. Other than using the stunning in speed hardcore and tuning stats in aftercore it doesn't seem that great for regular adventuring. Especially as a moxie class, which is what a speed run would be for me. |
Yes.. you just use it for a few free runaways
Hatrack is great if you get the right hat.
The bandersnatch's equipment is what makes it interesting as a primary volleyball. |
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tekDragon
Hard as Steel
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 815
Location: Halifax
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Didnt some peolpe use it along with shieldbut powerlevel in the sewers to snag day 1 livers over ther course of the contest as well?
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| tekDragon wrote: |
| Didnt some peolpe use it along with shieldbut powerlevel in the sewers to snag day 1 livers over ther course of the contest as well? |
Shrug, probably. I don't think sewers are optimal, personally, and they're certainly a cheap tactic (imho).. I don't see that D1 liver is necessary for a 4-day, and therefore going out of your way to hit that goal is sub-optimal... |
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