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salien
Hard as a math test
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 142
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 Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, with those and the pirate stuff around, you could now tack a basement run onto the end of a Bad Moon Sauceror run and be pretty safe. Not having Ravioli will suck a little, but you can even get Torso to help with DA, and just use combat items to stun and kill the monsters. I'm not actually advising this, just saying it'd be surprisingly easy now, permed skills don't matter as much in the basement these days. |
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ludomonster
Harder than Hardcore
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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How does the vibrato gear stack up against the brimstone gear in the basement?
Also, I hear a lot of talk about using marshmallows in the basement, but it seems silly if you’re going for and kind of speed.
Finally, I think summon divine favors should be on the skill list.
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JediJules
Hard as a math test
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 291
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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This thread is ancient, which is probably why vibrato and divine favors aren't addressed. I'm sure vibrato gear is just as unnecessary as brimstone. Favors are great, and should be included.
| ludomonster wrote: |
| Also, I hear a lot of talk about using marshmallows in the basement, but it seems silly if you’re going for and kind of speed. |
A maxed out marshmallow buff can give +500% to all stats -- this is several times better than the next best buff available. Even a less-than-full mallowed out buff is substantial.
At some point, eating marshmallows is faster than further leveling. I'm not sure exactly where that point is, and it varies based on stat days and FoB and a few other things. But it is certainly no later than the early 20's. Consider going from level 24 to 25: it takes over 1k (nonclover) turns (~2.5 days) to grind from 533 to 580 main stat -- that is just 47 mainstat. If you are running the standard ~600% buffs to all, that is only an increase of +282 (600% of 47) to each stat. Filling yourself with marshmallows costs some food turns, but at level 24 you can get a declining buff of up to +2665 (500% of 533) to each stat. KujieKujieKoo's data here suggests that the switchover point may be as low as level 22: http://afh.s4.bizhat.com//afh-ftopic769.html
If you don't want to lose days (for lucre reasons, etc) while building up marshmallow buffs, you can at least finish one day by eating 15 and start the next day by eating 15 more. That will give you a starting buff of 450% to all.
Anyway, I think marshmallows are an essential part of any speed-ish basement run: at the very least the pattern above should be done to finish the last 50 or so "hard" levels. Marshmallows have completely obsoleted the old grind to level 30 routine, even for those who have no gear and may be missing some standard skills.
JJ |
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm doing exactly that right now.. I just hit level 24, and I intend to finish the basement without further levelling. I'm at floor 369 currently, and I'll probably use marshmallows today and tomorrow to get me to 500. |
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TeKRunneR
HCD:
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1040
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Shao Mi wrote: |
| I'm doing exactly that right now.. I just hit level 24, and I intend to finish the basement without further levelling. I'm at floor 369 currently, and I'll probably use marshmallows today and tomorrow to get me to 500. |
I'm almost in the exact same situation (except I'm BAIOless D: ) : almost level 24 and floor 310. Tomorrow I'll try to finish the dive by eating 15 marshmallows.
Also, the summon divine favors skill is mostly irrelevant, you can just buy the items in the mall.
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Last edited by TeKRunneR on Fri May 02, 2008 5:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| TeKRunneR wrote: |
| Shao Mi wrote: |
| I'm doing exactly that right now.. I just hit level 24, and I intend to finish the basement without further levelling. I'm at floor 369 currently, and I'll probably use marshmallows today and tomorrow to get me to 500. |
I'm almost in the exact same situation (except I'm BAIOless D : almost level 24 and floor 310. Tomorrow I'll try to finish the dive by eating 15 marshmallows. |
I don't think 15 marshmallows is gonna cut it. That's only 45 turns of the effect, or +225%. Briefly. Might get you from 480 to 500, though. |
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Eh, I take it back.
Granted, it's a 70% baio day, but I just did floor 500 at level 25.6, without using any marshmallows. I chewed 15 wads at floor 475 and sailed through.
If I'd gotten a festering powder toward the end, I would've probably gone for marshmallows or mutagens just to be certain, of course. |
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TeKRunneR
HCD:
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1040
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Also made it to 500 today, at about level 25.7. The last 25 floors were really easy with marshmallows and wads. The 25 previous ones were harder, as I was hit with a lot of stat tests and had to use mutagen.
I think I'll start the basement a bit later next run, 22 was a bit early. Had to spend a lot of time maintaining buffs (but hey, 15 day HC basement run is pretty good). 23 sounds more reasonable.
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stannius
Hard as Pat Buchanan
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| When's the right level to start diving if you want to hit level 30 at about the same time as floor 500? |
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| stannius wrote: |
| When's the right level to start diving if you want to hit level 30 at about the same time as floor 500? |
26 won't put you far off the mark. Depends a bit on whether you're switching a sombrero in and out.. I did the whole thing with my parrot just so I wouldn't have to bother switching. |
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charred
Hard as Steel
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 688
Location: Colonie, NY USA
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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this one time, in band camp, i started once i hit 24 and had to level a little bit after 500, so 25 or 26
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Creepy McCheese
Hard as Steel
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Shao Mi wrote: |
| Depends a bit on whether you're switching a sombrero in and out.. I did the whole thing with my parrot just so I wouldn't have to bother switching. |
Crimbo Pressie my friend. Don't bother with a sombrero. All the bennies of a sombrero, plus a potato, plus other stuff. Best basement familiar ever.
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stannius
Hard as Pat Buchanan
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks. I guess I'll start at 25, since it's a nice round number. I am not in any particular hurry. |
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Davidmac
Harder than Hardcore
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I started diving the moment I hit 27, and did nothing but dive for 3 days. I hit 500 and ended up just short of 30, but I didn't always remember to swap my sombrero back in. |
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TeKRunneR
HCD:
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1040
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Shao Mi wrote: |
| 26 won't put you far off the mark. Depends a bit on whether you're switching a sombrero in and out.. I did the whole thing with my parrot just so I wouldn't have to bother switching. |
Huh, wait, I just realized I completely forgot to use my parrot. Elemental tests weren't hard enough to make me remember about it I guess (yes I was a myst class).
If you want to get the most stats out of the basement, don't forget to have Ur-Kels on, wear your best +ML equipment, kill monsters by funkslinging your main stat's divine combat items and buff your sombrero to the max for the fights.
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JediJules
Hard as a math test
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 291
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| TeKRunneR wrote: |
| Huh, wait, I just realized I completely forgot to use my parrot. Elemental tests weren't hard enough to make me remember about it I guess (yes I was a myst class). |
Yeah, the parrot helps. Granted, I started at level 24 instead of 22, but with a 45lb parrot (the cracker adds 15), astral, elemental saucesphere, and reasonable equip choices (including the dual-resist accessories), I was able to skip phials entirely. It varied a bit based on the musc buffs I had running, but most of the tests were not even close.
I did forget to switch back to the sombrero for combats on more than one occasion though.
JJ |
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stannius
Hard as Pat Buchanan
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Do the elemental tests count when calculating familiar usage %?
I am trying to have at least 90% bulky buddy box on my run to work towards the tour guide trophy. As far as I know only combats count and the elemental test is non-combat, but I don't want to throw away a month or two hanging out with my BBB because I made a bad assumption. |
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Cristiona
DIAMOND HARD
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 1655
Location: Hallucinating through Goofball withdrawl.
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Something I stumbled into this time around that made me smack myself for not thinking of it sooner:
On your basement runs, do the arena as a frat boy. Regardless of anything else, the Elvish effect is a free 20 turns of +10% to all stats. It's a small boost, but when you're sucking down goofballs and marshmallows in a desperate attempt to finish a day early, it can be a big help. And it's a crapload cheaper than jewelry juice.
Also, considering how old this thread is, it probably doesn't mention the fish-liver oil, which gives 5 turns of +10% Muscle and +50HP. It's also pretty cheap. |
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
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The gem juices aren't such a bad deal.. 15k meat gets you 50 turns of +50% stat...
(50 turns.. that's what I said, right?)
Last edited by Shao Mi on Sat May 03, 2008 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Waiting4Oct
Wake him when September ends.
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1644
Location: The Northwest
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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50 turns, actually. When I'm deep in the basement I usually use them. For the price, I think they're worth it because of how long they last.
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I don't want the news. (I have no use for it.) I don't want the news. (I want no part of it.) Sitting outside of town everybody's always down. (Tell me why.) Because they can't get up... From the Waiting Room! |
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Cristiona
DIAMOND HARD
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 1655
Location: Hallucinating through Goofball withdrawl.
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| They aren't a horrible idea, but if you can squeeze by without using them, that's even better. Especially since some of the new(ish) drops can give you a real boost. |
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JediJules
Hard as a math test
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 291
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Cristiona wrote: |
| They aren't a horrible idea, but if you can squeeze by without using them, that's even better. Especially since some of the new(ish) drops can give you a real boost. |
My feeling is, why not use them all? Without knowing what tests will be in the bottom levels, it isn't possible to calculate precisely the ideal moment to start the dive. But if you can reach the bottom without using buffs as cheap as jugs of juice, then it is safe to say you waited to long to start.
Even a non-farmer can farm for enough meat to buy a jug of meatgem juice in a dozen turns or so -- at basement levels that is vastly quicker than grinding your mainstat an equivalent amount. Or, put another way, jugs of meatgem juice are 3 or 4 cents worth of meat, which means the buff is less than 1/10 of a cent per turn. Planning to skip meatgem juice is not worth even the chance of adding a day to the dive.
By the way, I'm sure the PRESSIE is great for the basement, but it is absolutely not worth buying just for the basement if you don't have one already.
JJ
EDIT: The meatgem juice comments assume the diver is trying to be at least semi-optimal rather than trying to "achieve" the level 30 trophies. I'm sure there is no need for most of the advice in this thread on a level 30 run, stumbling through the basement in the late-20's. |
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pastamonstr
Hard as a math test
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Rockville, MD
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Divers-extraordinaires,
I've begun my first basement dive at level 21 as a PM. Over the last two days, I've gotten to basement level 200 and obtained player level 22 along the way. I haven't been having much issue so far. Should I expect to encounter a roadblock given my relatively low level before reaching the telescope? I have full plexi/stainless suit, moxie brimstone items and most of the required basement skills. Interesting items include V mask and navel ring. The level 30 trophy doesn't concern me right now. Any advice/suggestions/comments?
Skills:
Thrust-Smack (HP)
Lunging Thrust-Smack (HP)
Tongue of the Walrus (HP)
Claws of the Walrus (HP)
Eye of the Stoat (HP)
Rage of the Reindeer (HP)
Pulverize (HP)
Double-Fisted Skull Smashing (HP)
Musk of the Moose (HP)
Skin of the Leatherback (HP)
Shieldbutt (HP)
Empathy of the Newt (HP)
Tenacity of the Snapper (HP)
Wisdom of the Elder Tortoises (HP)
Amphibian Sympathy (HP)
Hero of the Half-Shell (HP)
Tao of the Terrapin (HP)
Spectral Snapper (HP)
Manicotti Meditation
Entangling Noodles (HP)
Pastamastery (HP)
Leash of Linguini (HP)
Cannelloni Cocoon (HP)
Spirit of Ravioli
Springy Fusilli (HP)
Spaghetti Spear
Advanced Saucecrafting (HP)
Elemental Saucesphere (HP)
Jabañero Saucesphere (HP)
Saucy Salve (HP)
Impetuous Sauciness (HP)
Mad Looting Skillz (HP)
Overdeveloped Sense of Self Preservation (HP)
Disco Power Nap (HP)
Advanced Cocktailcrafting (HP)
Ambidextrous Funkslinging (HP)
Smooth Movement (HP)
Superhuman Cocktailcrafting (HP)
Aloysius' Antiphon of Aptitude (HP)
The Moxious Madrigal (HP)
The Magical Mojomuscular Melody (HP)
The Power Ballad of the Arrowsmith (HP)
Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric (HP)
Jackasses' Symphony of Destruction (HP)
The Ode to Booze (HP)
The Sonata of Sneakiness (HP)
Ur-Kel's Aria of Annoyance (HP) |
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Shao Mi
Shao Mi the Lucre!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 4085
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, it gets harder
No advice beyond all the other advice.. The main killer is the Festering Powder. If you're about to do one of those and you have all your buffs on except there's this one other thing you could do for an extra 40mp but you're wondering if it's worth the trouble "just in case"... yes. Yes it is. The worst thing in the basement is missing a Powder by a few mp. |
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stannius
Hard as Pat Buchanan
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Remember that the basement isn't linear, it's exponential. Level 500 isn't 2.5 times as hard as 200 - it's closer to 4 times as hard. |
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pastamonstr
Hard as a math test
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Rockville, MD
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| I guess the question should be more like "What's the lowest level one can expect to clear level 500 of the basement with reasonable difficulty?" I think I'll be running into problems today before I reach basement level 300. |
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stannius
Hard as Pat Buchanan
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Depends on your definition of "reasonable." I.e. how much meat you're willing to spend. |
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pastamonstr
Hard as a math test
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Rockville, MD
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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"Reasonable" = no BAIOs or other ultrarare items obviously
I have no meat left to spend so I'm on the ultra-cheap. Level 25? 26? 50? |
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stannius
Hard as Pat Buchanan
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| pastamonstr wrote: |
"Reasonable" = no BAIOs or other ultrarare items obviously
I have no meat left to spend so I'm on the ultra-cheap. Level 25? 26? 50? |
You're going to need *some* meat (at least a few hundred thousand?) so I would suggest doing your leveling in an area that gives both decent stats and decent meat. E.g. the castle. |
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ludomonster
Harder than Hardcore
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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If you can get a vivala mask and a navel ring, it will make things a bit easier.
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I've never been good with words. That's why I'm in such a delicate conundrum. |
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