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frost_maze
Hard to the Core
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 47
Location: London
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 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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I had a total of 145 damage absorption. Moxie 70. ML 76. White satin shield (5 DR). Skin of the leatherback. That's it. I still don't understand. That would only reduce it by around 10 or so.
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Kittiwake
HCO
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 973
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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There is also monster variance, you may have hit a few Goats with higher than usual Attack.
Also, i'd just say its Leatherback's fault. Its not fully known what it does exactly, so you can't really tell how much its going to help, so i'm pointing the finger at that
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Crawly
Hard as a math test
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| frost_maze wrote: |
| I had a total of 145 damage absorption. Moxie 70. ML 76. White satin shield (5 DR). Skin of the leatherback. That's it. I still don't understand. That would only reduce it by around 10 or so. |
76 - 70 = 6 = base damage.
0.2 * 76 = 15.2 minimum variable damage
0.25 * 76 = 19 maximum variable damage.
Total damage: 21.2 - 25
Reduced by 5 for shield: 16.2 - 20
Reduced by 6 (just guesswork) for Skin: 10.2 - 14
Damage absorption modifier: 0.71921
Damage range: 7.33 - 10.06
Just sayin'. |
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kevbob
bobkev
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 2770
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Kittiwake wrote: |
There is also monster variance, you may have hit a few Goats with higher than usual Attack.
Also, i'd just say its Leatherback's fault. Its not fully known what it does exactly, so you can't really tell how much its going to help, so i'm pointing the finger at that |
why is there something in the back of my head saying that either jick or an admin, or a /dev member, said that leatherback scaled based on level?
dammit, and crawly is right there. i know, i know, use the search... use the search...
sigh, i'll see if i can dig that up sometime. |
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frost_maze
Hard to the Core
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 47
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Oooooh. Right thanks. I didn't realise that you multiply the damage aborption formula thing... ooops. Sorry 'bout that. 
Edit: Oh, and a creepy clown just dealt spooky damage to me.
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Last edited by frost_maze on Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Confusion
DIAMOND HARD
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 1337
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
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dornbeast
Hard as a math test
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:01 am Post subject: |
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Failed to hit the Writing Desk in the Haunted Library with a Kneebutt.
Modified Muscle: 47. |
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dirkdiggler
Hard as a math test
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 279
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| Hellion wrote: |
| I believe the monster gets a 1/22 chance to hit you regardless of how its attack compares to your moxie. |
I was told 1/20, but that sounds like an estimate -- is 1/22 correct? Or also an estimate? |
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Kittiwake
HCO
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 973
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Dornbeat - Are you saying you had 47 Muscle and used Kneebutt, or with Kneebutt you had an effective 47 Muscle?
dirk - I don't know what the Monster critical rate is myself. I've heard 1/20 as well though.
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dornbeast
Hard as a math test
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| Kittiwake wrote: |
Dornbeast - Are you saying you had 47 Muscle and used Kneebutt, or with Kneebutt you had an effective 47 Muscle?
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47 plus Kneebutt. Effective 67.
And it was a clean miss, not a fumble. |
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Fryguy9
Soft Like a Bunny
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| I don't want to make it sound like I'm begging for someone to do this, but is anyone working on the Skelter Butleton, the Butler Skeleton monster that's missing from the list? I was trying to see if anything else was missing, even if just for completeness, and the only things I could find were the one above, the CLEESH monsters, and the Master of Thieves. |
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Kittiwake
HCO
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 973
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
47 plus Kneebutt. Effective 67.
And it was a clean miss, not a fumble. |
Odd. Well, this FoB hopefully i'll get some spading done that can shed some light on some weird monsters, and i think the Library ones were ones i deemed 'weird'. I might have an answer later, otherwise i don't know.
| Quote: |
| I don't want to make it sound like I'm begging for someone to do this, but is anyone working on the Skelter Butleton, the Butler Skeleton monster that's missing from the list? |
I've tried, but my multi just can't find the bastard. I think i have to take out the Bonerdagon to find him, something which i don't really want to do. I'll try though, but the one-shot fight and variance is going to make it slightly tricky.
I'll add the other monsters now.
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
No. Yes. Sorry. I'll shut up. |
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Confusion
DIAMOND HARD
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 1337
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Kittiwake wrote: |
| Quote: |
47 plus Kneebutt. Effective 67.
And it was a clean miss, not a fumble. |
Odd. Well, this FoB hopefully i'll get some spading done that can shed some light on some weird monsters, and i think the Library ones were ones i deemed 'weird'. I might have an answer later, otherwise i don't know.
| Quote: |
| I don't want to make it sound like I'm begging for someone to do this, but is anyone working on the Skelter Butleton, the Butler Skeleton monster that's missing from the list? |
I've tried, but my multi just can't find the bastard. I think i have to take out the Bonerdagon to find him, something which i don't really want to do. I'll try though, but the one-shot fight and variance is going to make it slightly tricky.
I'll add the other monsters now. |
I ran across soemthing similar, I was about to make a big post to here saying "HUH? Why are they getting so many clean hits on me?"
And then I realised I was only just at no-hit, and it was the variance in effect. According to the guide (just for completeness):
Writing Desk - 62 HP - 11.4 XP - 57 Def - 57 Atk -66 Hit - 66 Evade
which means a modified muscle of 47+20 bonus = enough that a variance in defence could cause the miss no questions asked, couldn't it?
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Man, who turned off the sun?
I'm the only one with any cajones around here. |
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dornbeast
Hard as a math test
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Confusion wrote: |
I ran across soemthing similar, I was about to make a big post to here saying "HUH? Why are they getting so many clean hits on me?"
And then I realised I was only just at no-hit, and it was the variance in effect. According to the guide (just for completeness):
Writing Desk - 62 HP - 11.4 XP - 57 Def - 57 Atk -66 Hit - 66 Evade
which means a modified muscle of 47+20 bonus = enough that a variance in defence could cause the miss no questions asked, couldn't it? |
Oh, the defense varies too? I knew about the HP sliding around, but I didn't realize the attack and defense were variable as well.
Hmm. Maybe this isn't a problem, then, if the desk's defense was up by two or more points. I wouldn't think it could vary that far, though. The largest HP variance I've seen is roughly 5% of total HP, so it seems odd that Attack and Defense could exceed that, especially since variations seem to be on a curve. |
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Kittiwake
HCO
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 973
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Variation range is roughly 5%, rounded down.
So the Desk could go from 55-59 Def, +/-2 either way.
So thats about 69 for 100% hit rate, just 2 above your Kneebutting 67 Muscle.
That could just be why.
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
No. Yes. Sorry. I'll shut up. |
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Confusion
DIAMOND HARD
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 1337
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| dornbeast wrote: |
Oh, the defense varies too? I knew about the HP sliding around, but I didn't realize the attack and defense were variable as well.
Hmm. Maybe this isn't a problem, then, if the desk's defense was up by two or more points. I wouldn't think it could vary that far, though. The largest HP variance I've seen is roughly 5% of total HP, so it seems odd that Attack and Defense could exceed that, especially since variations seem to be on a curve. |
Well, from your post it isn't clear whether you were consistently missing, or just missed the once.
Was this just one or two misses, or did you fail to hit consistently for 5-10 shots? I ask for such high numbers because I often notice that my fumbles always come in batches.
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Man, who turned off the sun?
I'm the only one with any cajones around here. |
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dornbeast
Hard as a math test
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Kittiwake wrote: |
Variation range is roughly 5%, rounded down.
So the Desk could go from 55-59 Def, +/-2 either way.
So thats about 69 for 100% hit rate, just 2 above your Kneebutting 67 Muscle.
That could just be why. |
*facepalm*
My math is going stupid. For some reason I was calculating 2% and thinking I had 5%. |
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dornbeast
Hard as a math test
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Confusion wrote: |
| Well, from your post it isn't clear whether you were consistently missing, or just missed the once. |
Just the once. I missed, it hit, and I decided panicking and running away was a good plan.
But I wasn't expecting any defense variations, and that's where I was having problems.
Okay, never mind! No problem with the list! |
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Confusion
DIAMOND HARD
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 1337
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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It's not nearly as bad as me man, I was plinking, and I kept getting landed witht he occasional real hit.
I was a bout to post here about how the Goats had all just been pumped up by a point or two, and then I realised.
Was a complete facepalm for me too, only by sharing my idiocy with /hardcore was it caught in time.
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Man, who turned off the sun?
I'm the only one with any cajones around here. |
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etzhadaat
Hard as a math test
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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There are critical hits now.
Why is there nothing for cleesh monster xp? Do they not give any? And if so, wouldn't various implements of +ML tell us anything?
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Kittiwake
HCO
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 973
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| There are critical hits now. |
Yeah, I should add a note for that too. I figured everyone would know by now.
| Quote: |
| Why is there nothing for cleesh monster xp? Do they not give any? And if so, wouldn't various implements of +ML tell us anything? |
Pure laziness. There are parts of it that really need updating that I'll get too... well, soon-ish >.>
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
No. Yes. Sorry. I'll shut up. |
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Harry Crimboween
Soft Like a Bunny
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1
Location: Brecksville, OH
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: a few elements wrong |
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Great guide, thanks! A few minor things I've noticed... I don't know if these are changes or if they've always been that way.
* The pre-cyrpt "grave rober" is not spooky, he's actually non-elemental... I suppose cause he's still human. (The post-cyrpt "grave rober zmobie" is spooky.)
* The zombie waltzers in the Spookyraven ballroom are spooky. |
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Kittiwake
HCO
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 973
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Great guide, thanks! A few minor things I've noticed... I don't know if these are changes or if they've always been that way.
* The pre-cyrpt "grave rober" is not spooky, he's actually non-elemental... I suppose cause he's still human. (The post-cyrpt "grave rober zmobie" is spooky.)
* The zombie waltzers in the Spookyraven ballroom are spooky
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Done and done. Thanks for the info!
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
No. Yes. Sorry. I'll shut up. |
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Kittiwake
HCO
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 973
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: |
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NS13 has hit, and like always, any help will be greatly appreciated.
If you can, help out with:
Stats for new monsters - Be sure to take into account +stat things, and *any* new stuff that *may* affect ML or stat gains or anything. Be sure you know what you're doing, ask me if you don't, i'll post some instructions.
Mod/Hack Mafia to add support for the new zones before Hola - I realise Hola's intention is to stop wide-spread farming of new zones and whatnot, but it also means that I can't use mafia to accelerate spading, and trust me it helps. If anyone is able to do this, let me know.
Run Mafia on some multis - Once the above is done, if you have a multi thats doing nothing, you can put it to use collecting some info. Nothing too hard, I can take care of the parsing and whatnot, all I need is the manpower to collect it all.
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
No. Yes. Sorry. I'll shut up. |
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Kittiwake
HCO
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 973
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Okay, I want to clean up the guide a bit (for the millionth time >.>), but I'll ask you people first.
Would anyone care at all if the Hit and Evade figures for monsters were completly removed?
I want to get rid of them for several reasons. One is to make it easier on the eyes, there is less text to look at. Second is to make it easier to update, there is a lot less BBCode text to sort through when looking for stuff. Three is to reduce the BBCode text itself, so I can hopefully cram more into a single post and not have to split it up so much. Fifth is so I won't have to go an re-update all of them to match the new Hit-rate formula that Dirk spaded out here a while ago. Sixth is that they're no longer really useful or accurate now with monster variance and critical hits.
Anyone object to this at all?
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
No. Yes. Sorry. I'll shut up. |
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snarles2
HCO
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| No problems here! |
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jonrock
Hard to the Core
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| In addition, for monsters where the Def is the same as the Atk I'd be happy for that to simply be called "ML". |
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Kittiwake
HCO
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 973
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:28 am Post subject: |
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Well, no objections for a week or so, so they're gone. Hurrah.
| jonrock wrote: |
| In addition, for monsters where the Def is the same as the Atk I'd be happy for that to simply be called "ML". |
Hmm, good idea, but I think that with NS13 monsters that have Atk = Def are very uncommon, rather than quite common pre-NS13.
So I don't think there would be enough monsters that it affects to be worth it.
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
No. Yes. Sorry. I'll shut up. |
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Cristiona
DIAMOND HARD
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 1655
Location: Hallucinating through Goofball withdrawl.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Broken code on the farm for the pond 
ML question, though. It's probably been answered elsewhere, but this seems a handy place to have it, too: how to roughly estimate ML. It's useful for knowing when to switch to the 'brero. Look at the XP? Average attack and defence? |
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Kittiwake
HCO
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 973
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Cristiona wrote: |
| Broken code on the farm for the pond :wink: |
Cheers, thanks.
| Quote: |
ML question, though. It's probably been answered elsewhere, but this seems a handy place to have it, too: how to roughly estimate ML. It's useful for knowing when to switch to the 'brero. Look at the XP? Average attack and defence? |
Best way is to take base XP, and multiply by 4. That should give a very good approximation of their Attack value pre-variation, even from a single value, though you may want a few more to make sure it is/isn't a multiple of 4. You can assume their Defense is similiar to this value, probably lower (as seems to be the trend with a lot of monsters post-NS13).
I'm not sure if the Sombrero actually works off Attack, or Atk+Def/2. Its always been stated ML, but monsters don't really have a set ML anymore...
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
No. Yes. Sorry. I'll shut up. |
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