The Hardcore OxygeNation

beardedrobot · Soft Like a Bunny Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 2

Woah...what a guide!

My multi is a lvl7 DB on first run (SC). I have a 16lb volleyball and the Disco State of Mind. I have stats (buffed) of 37(40) / 40(48) / 49(80).

If I understand the guide correctly, I should be beating the spook out of most of the spooky monsters at the Cyrpt! Not so.
Looking at the required stats in the Defiled Nook, I see that I must have a moxie > 63 to guarantee a hit, and moxie > 63 to defend, against the Spiny Skelelton. Yes?

That means if my main stat is higher than 67 I should definitely be hitting the monster. But this isn't the case for me (I've got moxie of 80...had 88 for a few turns with hairspray). I've gone 30 turns and lost automatically to the monster without landing any hits. I've used my moxious manv. to defeat them easily, but why can I not hit anything?
This appears to be the case with most monsters in this area. I don't recall, but I think I'm generally weak against monsters I should be beating through the Kingdom.

Is there something wrong in the way I'm interpreting the guide? Is it out of date? Does the Disco State of Mind not add to my chances?

kevbob · bobkev Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 2770

beardedrobot · Soft Like a Bunny Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 2

Kittiwake · Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:51 am Post subject:

Yeah, the cane is a bit off a strange one, it throws many people off.

When you're using a Ranged weapon, your hit-rate is based on Moxie, rather than Muscle like it is when you have a Staff or other melee weapon on you. Since a Moxie class only needs Moxie, they should have a ranged weapon at all times.

The cane is odd, because it gives only a DB's boost to Mox, but still uses Muscle to hit. Even worse is the Gold Frontes, giving a hefty +15 Muscle that won't really help most DBs at all, and giving mistaken players no bonus when they're using a ranged weapon like they should be.

So really, drop the cane, and use a ranged weapon - any one. If you're untouchable it doesn't really matter how long it takes to kill stuff. Next clover day, be sure to make a Disco Banjo, it'll give a +7 Mox bonus AND is ranged. Best weapon ypu'll likely ever have as a DB, except if the Trapper gives you an Asbestos Bow.
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Kyraeu · Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject:

Disco banjo completely helped me out in pwning some giants when I couldn't really get my moxie very high. Except I still had to toss a few face-stabs in.

After that the star crossbow helped me out a bunch. Doesn't get much use (maybe HitS and courtyard), but it was pretty good.

BobbyCorno · HCO Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 689 Location: Columbus, OH

Let's keep the gameplay discussion in the appropriate forum. Kittiwake, would you like me to prune some of the recent posts to keep things clean?

Kittiwake · Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:08 am Post subject:

Hmm, alright then. Prune away =p
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
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Tard · Firm Like a Handshake Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 7

Kittiwake, is there a xml or simple text file you keep updated of all this data? I'd like to use the compiled data for a new greasemonkey script. I have the code the for script almost set up. I just need a good data source. I'd give you credit of course.

Thanks

Cisco · Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject:

Hey Tard

Would a cgi output work for you? If so you can query http://kol.network-forums.com/cgi-bin/moxie.cgi with GET's for specific monster info that's current.

For example, http://kol.network-forums.com/cgi-bin/moxie.cgi?search=batrat
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PatMcRotch · It's Pat! Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 753

But is it all current? I was under the impression most of it was outdated.

Cisco · Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject:

It should be, KW said everything was pretty much set at the point I ran the update last. I'll see what nonsense he's added since then, maybe my parser still works. Evil or Very Mad

Edit: Updated, and Snazzy new element field thrown in. Maybe I'll even set it up to differentiate between attack, defend and both, like KW did...nah Razz

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Tard · Firm Like a Handshake Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 7

Sweet! Is there by chance a way to grab all the data at once instead of making a call for each monster?

Kittiwake · Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:12 am Post subject:

Hey people, its time for you to data-farm for me again! =)

I need 3 very important things from the Pickle factory. Heres how you can help me.

Confirm HP
Just smack the hell out of them untill you've done about 140 damage. Then finish them off with a seal tooth or something. They should have about 150 HP.

Confrim XP
Make sure you have NOTHING that can increase/decrease XP gains in anyway (The new Lab +item% stuff does this, so there is a sacrifice here...). Just collect the XP you get from them, should be 40 XP each time. Pretty easy too.

Get Defense
This is a tad trickier. First, get your Muscle to around 210, no less. Equip a 10-power melee weapon. Get about 210 Mox if you wish to make it easier to survive. Make sure you have NO +/- Melee mods. Record the damage ranges you do to each monster, it should only be 3 numbers, ie 4-6 or 12-14. If it goes outside a range of 3, you're doing something wrong. Once you have all 3 values (VERY IMPORTANT), just tell me the Monster, the damage range and your current Muscle. I'll do the rest.

I'd be VERY grateful if anyone can do this for me.

Also, if you could happen to do this for any ultra-rare monsters (Hockey Elemental specifically), that would also be awesome.
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
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Jesus · HCO Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 592 Location: Ohio

With flaming talons, the Dill plant and Vine gar are taking 5 fire damage, while the worker is taking 10. It's apparentlly spooky.

Worker HP - 180, XP - 40
Dill HP - 180, XP - 40
Gar HP - 180, XP - 40

Vine Gar (mucle 219)
20-22

Worker (muscle 219)
20-22

Dill (muscle 220)
21-23 (24 with a critical)

Worker (muscle 220)
21-23

Vine Gar (muscle 220)
21-23 (22, 24, and 26 criticals)

Kittiwake · Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:46 am Post subject:

Awesome, that confirms what i thought. 200 Attack, 200 Defense.

Those values are without Talons right?
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
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Yendor · HCO Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 49

The Factory Worker does spooky damage, by the way.

Jesus · HCO Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 592 Location: Ohio

GodsKook · Hard as Steel Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 734

The pine-fresh bat (at least)sometimes hits for stench damage.

Somebody of Cowland · Hard to the Core Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 46

Just to let you know, I got whacked precisely 60 spooky damage by a Dill at 163 Mox. I know you are supposed to get hit, but it hit me 3 rounds, 60 spooky a round. Just thought you might like to know. Other than that, they always hit me 60+one or two. I hit at with a 7-foot Dwarven Mattock, if I remember correctly, for about 70 a round, but don't rely on that.
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Tard · Firm Like a Handshake Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 7

Hey, I took your list and made it XML. What is the best way for me to make sure it's always up to date?

http://kol.dashida.com/advlist.xml

Kittiwake · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:23 am Post subject:

Hmm... i'm not sure. This post gets updated more than then Look-up does, as well as the date when. Although tedious, checking daily for updates would be it.

Or... would you want me to message you each time i make a relatively decent update to it?
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
No. Yes. Sorry. I'll shut up.

Tard · Firm Like a Handshake Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 7

I was hoping you'd be interested in hosting the xml file and updating that. It would be a universal source for your data and could be consumed by a limitless number of tools. There's already 2 GM scripts that would benefit. KolMafia could utilize it. Even the moxie.cgi could take advantage of the xml file.

Let me know what you think.

Kittiwake · Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:45 am Post subject:

Smidge · Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:40 am Post subject:

Are we still doing the report thing when a monster hits above the listed value? 'cause I was seal toothing in menagerie 2 and a carnivorous moxie weed hit me when I was on 75 mox (it was the ~4th I'd fought, though). I'm pretty sure I've noticed a few other values that're off in various places, but I didn't bother to take note of them at the time.

Kittiwake · Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject:

Well... not really.

I think it has been found that there is something that is upping a monster's chance to hit you somehow, so sometimes even at 9 above, you may still get hit.

It should be pretty rare though. I don't get very of those reports, so i'm just willing to put it down to freak chance. I still don't think it comes common enough for me to change values around though, you're already 99.99% safe with the current ones. I don't know.

Although i will welcome reports on anything with an unconfirmed Attack value (DD and Nemesis monsters mostly).

Most i can say is just beware if all it takes is one-hit to do you in.
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Sir, I just have to point out that you smell.
No. Yes. Sorry. I'll shut up.

Smidge · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:39 am Post subject:

At least some of the fernswarthy's tower monsters now do hot damage sometimes. The only one I remember for sure is the chowder golem. It shouldn't take long to test which monsters do elemental damage. If I had a character I could afford to waste turns with at present I'd do it, but I don't, sorry.

Tard · Firm Like a Handshake Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 7

fyi, I was being hit occassionally at the Goatlet with 77 mox.

Tard · Firm Like a Handshake Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 7

Kittiwake, Cisco gave us the green light. When its all set up, please let me know what the URL to the file is. Thanks!

Also, you can validate xml easily by loading it in Firefox. Firefox has a built in xml validator. (checks for missing quotes and such)

Oh, and I've been meaning to add an "id" attribute to each zone so I can easily retrieve the zone url or id. I'll let you know when the xml file is updated with that info.

Smidge · Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject:

Monsters can do multiple different elements now. Each attack a monster can do has its own element - the Gnollish Sorceress does several different types of elemental damage, depending on which spell is cast (the wiki is outdated on them too, unfortunately). It seems the system for listing an element for elemental attack and defense needs to be revised - Perhaps a 'physical' element should be added, and when monsters don't always do a listed element, all elemental damage types they can do can be listed?